Zune Games and Rebooting Devices
While surfing “teh interwebs” I’ve come across a lot of speculation about how development works on Zune, especially around the way Zune behaves when rebooting. I figured we were long overdue for some information around the way this works.
When we first talked about Zune Development at GDC, we mentioned that there are couple of features that get “turned off” when you start playing a game created by someone else, or developing your own game through XNA Game Studio. The features that become disabled are the playback of DRM music and the ability to share content with other Zunes (outside of game information). The reason we do this is we want to keep the Zune secure while you’re writing your games on the device. The only way for us to re-enable these features is to restart the device. We do this when the game has exited because we felt that not doing so would lead to confusion when all of a sudden you can’t play back some music and you didn’t know why.
With the Zune 3.0 and subsequent 3.1 firmware releases we introduced games that are included for consumers on the device. Naturally we want consumers to have all the same features that they are normally accustomed to including the playback of Zune Pass content while playing a game. Because no features were ever disabled for these games there is no need to restart the Zune. We’ve also spent a lot of time verifying these games so ultimately the content is trustworthy and safe. These games are signed in such a way that conveys that trust, there is no special API or secret call that prevents the game from rebooting.
When we implemented the rebooting mechanism, we didn’t anticipate getting as much feedback as we did about the issue. This is because on other systems (the Xbox 360) we do exactly the same thing. The difference on the Xbox 360 is that we have a way to persist the display so the console doesn’t look like it’s restarting (also known as a warm reboot).
Another key difference is the ecosystem, as we have a much less constrained sharing mechanism than that of the Xbox 360. We’ve seen many users get games from other places, which is great but we still think it’s important that the developer experience remain separate from consumer experiences, like the inbox games included with the Zune.
If the Zune had to reboot what would you do to make it a better experience? What annoys you most about how the Zune reboots? Thanks for the feedback, and hopefully this sheds some light on how things work.
The read "fix" for this is to decide that the Xbox Live Community Games is so amazingly good that we need a Zune Marketplace Community Games section for people to buy games on. Hopefully these games could be sandboxed properly and validated properly so that th restrictions on developer mode games wouldn’t need to be placed on the marketplace games.
In my opinion the zune games reboot is the same amount of annoying as the xbox exit CG game annoying and I think the consumer fix is the same as well.
If you figure out how to get your team hiring again I’ll come help test this
Personally I have no problem with the rebooting of the Zune. But the consumer seem to care a lot about this. They "blame" the developers of the games for restarting the Zune after exit. I think if it is really necessary to reboot the Zune, some kind of confirmation box that tells the user that the Zune is rebooting now (and why!) would be information enough to lighten up all the confusion.
Agree with DiNoGames.
Maybe a small warning pop-up like "Zune will automatically reboot, now. Thanks for your patience. MSFT team".
RE: Zune Games and Rebooting Devices
Starting with the Zune 3.0 firmware, you can install and play a set of games on your Zune device . Texas
i think Zune needs a games marketplace
I’m actually surprised. I thought a Zune Games Marketplace was what was coming, but there has been no indication of this happening. While releasing a game dev kit was a great move, it all seems very "hobbyist" with no direction for the movement. I’d like to see more support / planning for games within the Zune software and from Zune marketing.
I’m actually surprised. I thought a Zune Games Marketplace was what was coming, but there has been no indication of this happening. While releasing a game dev kit was a great move, it all seems very "hobbyist" with no direction for the movement. I’d like to see more support / planning for games within the Zune software and from Zune marketing.
The most annoying thing I find about such a restart (I haven’t actually installed any XNA games since 3.0 and 3.1) is that my music or podcast stops playing.
Aside from that there is no real time or anoyance grater than the time it takes a "normal" Zune game to start/end. (Which in itself should be quicker IMHO!)
RE: Zune Games and Rebooting Devices
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I agree with HUKI365.
The interruption of music is inexcusable for a music player.
"…we still think it’s important that the developer experience remain separate from consumer experiences, like the inbox games included with the Zune."
This is a crazy way to think about things. If Microsoft really believed in this attitude, then Windows would be a waste of time! The whole beauty of electronics is that you can change it to conform to your needs. One should not have to change for the device.
Microsoft are not losing out on revenue by letting other developers create games. If anything, it would attract people to the device.
Pointless ideals = bad business plan.
I have question, and I’m not sure it pertains to this article, but, How come my Zune turns off when ever I try to play ZuneHero v.1 on my Zune?
Layne: If the device reboots as soon as you run the game, it sounds like the game is crashing, the game encounters and error and then quits which causes the device to reboot. You should try to see if there is a new version of the game or contact the author of the game to see if he can help you fix the issue.
> If the device reboots as soon as you run the game, it sounds like the game is crashing, the game
>encounters and error and then quits which causes the device to reboot. You should try to see if
>there is a new version of the game or contact the author of the game to see if he can help you fix the
>issue.
Actually ALL games built with earlier XNA versions just reboot when you launch them if you have updated Zune with latest XNA.This also looks quite bad, but since XNA has been in development and those games not being official third-party products, it’s understandable (although end-users who found those games on the web and liked them just hate Zune for breaking their games). To fix you have to find latest version of game compiled with newest XNA Studio (3.1), or find its source code and re-compile it yourself
Regarding the rebooting after unsigned games exiting, it’s very annoying – it should somehow add some startup link at the machine to go to games page again after reboot and reselect the game that just exited.
That way apart from the reboot delay and the music playback stopping it would behave same as the official games.
In face it could also put some startup code to resume radio or song playback from where it was (same radio station or same song from same point in time).
That way only the reboot delay would be there (which could be speeded up if Zune could store its memory state [including registers if any] right after a reboot so that it can quickly revert to it). That of course depends on the machine’s design (including its security / memory protection architecture).
I think that MS should make a marketplace for the XNA games fot the zune, so now they will not restart… like the indie games marketplace for the xbox 360….
In response to the question, "What annoys you most about the Zune reboots," for me it is the fact that it registers on my computer as the removal and subsequent adding of new hardware – which also causes the Zune application to launch on my desktop.
When developing in Visual Studio (with XNA 3.1 + Zune HD extensions), I prefer to have my Zune HD displaying the menu so I can easily test my apps. With the Zune software running, I cannot do that as the screen displays a "Connected" message, so I have to go through the hassle of having to close it each time (in addition to the extra time delay as the Zune reboots).
Given that this is on the HD, how possible would it be for the firmware to simply re-enable the features that it disabled when launching the app, rather than resort to a complete reboot?
I think that is this going to be one of the reasons why the Zune HD will not have the developer community of the iPod Touch. One of the reasons the Apple App Store is so damn popular is the stupid little apps. I just programmed a stupid little flashlight app for my Zune. Do you know how much it sucks to reboot everytime I want to quickly load up this app for a second and be done with it? Too much.
For what annoys me most about the reboots: First of all, when developing an app and the Zune restarts, my computer sees it as it being removed. When it starts back up, the Zune software opens up. It is a bit annoying to see this every time I test my app. Second, like Marshall, I developed a flashlight application and I find it very annoying to load up this little app and have to wait for a restart every time I want to get back to what I was doing. Third, I believe a lot of people see it as making their app look not clean or professional. The app seems messy and incomplete having to restart after using it. Finally, when people download your app they blame you for the restart and demand a fix. It gets old to explain to them that it is Microsoft’s fault, not yours.
Please remove the restart after exiting homebrew apps!